spevacktesting 1 2 311:57
susmithello everyone....hope you all are doing fine.11:58
spevackdoing fine, how are you susmit11:58
* lcafiero is well, thank you. you?11:58
* kital is here11:59
susmitfugolini, hi11:59
spevackhi everyone11:59
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jds2001so who's all here?12:00
spevackMax Spevack12:00
* lcafiero is Larry cafiero12:00
fugoliniFrancesco Ugolini12:00
* ke4qqq is David Nalley12:00
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red_alertSandro Mathys12:01
spevackwho are we missing?12:02
fugoliniAs I know thomas cannion couldn't be here12:02
fugoliniRodrigo is missing too12:02
jds2001so hector gonzalez is missing?12:03
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fugolinii think so12:03
spevackRight, 7 candidates present, Hector, Rodrigo, and Thomas missing.12:03
jds2001does anyone know hector's irc nick?12:03
spevackthat accounts for all 10 on the nominations page12:03
fugolinimh, I think in the nomination page there was the ircname12:04
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jds2001ok, so let's get started.12:05
jds2001i'll be taking questions from #fedora-townhall-public and pasting them in here.12:05
* spevack votes that we drop the ?, !, etc stuff and just talk :)12:06
jds2001indeed, im not familair with that sort of thing :)12:06
lcafieroDo we answer in any particular order, or just answer?12:06
jds2001just answer12:06
fugoliniThere will be a order ? or just who want to answer take the voice?12:06
fugoliniI mean FAmSCo candidates12:07
spevackin previous town halls, people just spoke up as they had something to say12:07
lcafierothank you12:07
spevackand we don't move on to the next question until the moderator agrees that everyone who wanted to say something had a chance12:07
spevackand each candidate does not have to answer each question, unless they want to.12:07
jds2001our first questions comes from inode012:07
jds2001Especially for those running for re-election, roughly what has been your attendance at FAmSCo meetings? Do you find them to be a productive use of  your time? If not how might they be improved this term?12:07
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spevackjust go ahead, francesco :)12:08
fugoliniI think FAmSCo meeting had an importance in the moment there was to take a decision or to show the current situation of the project12:08
lcafieroThis is my first time running, and as a relative newcomer (only an ambassador since May), my attendance is usually dictated by my class workload on Tuesday nights. I have found them to be productive, on the whole.12:09
fugoliniI could notice in the past the it created problems, only because the time was wrong, but that's a problem we can't solve.12:09
* ke4qqq notes for the record that he isn't running for reelection. 12:10
spevackUnless something like a business trip prevents it, I try to attend every meeting.  If I can't attend, I try to send a summary of what I am responsible for (budget stuff) to the list.  Overall attendance at FAMSCo meetings has been less that what I think is optimal.  We might have to do a better job of picking a time.  FAMSCo (more than most groups) really has people spread across a huge number of time zones.12:10
lcafieroAlso, being a student in a bash scripting class allows me to have an IRC channel open all evening on Tuesdays, so I'm generally available.12:10
kitalfamsco meeting was for me as non famsco member also a place where Ambassadors can discuss and point things out to famsco to become a fast decission12:10
spevackI am hopeful that when we usher in the new FAMSCo, we'll have an easier time finding a meeting time that works for everyone.12:10
susmitThough I am a first timer, I think we can put up the agenda and if unable to attend, communicate our views beforehand by mail.12:10
ke4qqqso meeting times for distributed groups are hard - and judging from the irc logs - I wonder if changing meetings to monthly might not encourage better attendance and get more accomplished12:12
spevackI think the nature of famsco's business is such that there isn't necessarily a lot to discuss in a meeting format every week.12:13
lcafieroThere may be disadvantages to that ke4qqq -- not that I'm a fan of a life of meetings -- but if you miss one for some reason you have to wait a month to resolve an issue in the next one.12:13
ke4qqqmonthly meetings would also mean a more full agenda - which would likely encourage more participation because hopefully at least one topic would matter over a month.12:13
spevackke4qqq might have a point.  I could see trying an every-other-week meeting schedule, but it would require strong leadership from the entire team to ensure that topics are handled on-list by individual owners.12:13
ke4qqqlcafiero: I don't think meetings are the only place for resolution.12:14
spevackke4qqq: i'm not sure i'd want to drop from weekly to monthly all in one shot :)12:14
* lcafiero seems to be the loyal opposition on this issue and naturally will go with the will of the group12:14
red_alertI think 7 people can discuss well over the mailing list and that irc meetings are not necessary very often12:14
susmittwo meets a month?12:14
jds2001can i move on to the next question?12:14
spevackjds2001: yeah, we're not going to make a decision on this right now12:15
fugolinifrom my side yes12:15
jds2001herlo asks "To begin with, I want to know what you think is good about FAmSCo and what direction it should take in the coming year.  I also want you to address  what you think could be improved, things like communication, mentoring and budget are valuable.  What else would you like to improve?12:15
spevackI am proud of the growth in regional leadership that Ambassadors has seen this year, and I think FAMSCo understood the vision we were trying to create.12:16
fugoliniWell, I think first of all FAmSCo has to be more confident with the localization process, starting a more-in-depth collaboration with local contacts, and working on a case-by-case criteria (it should help relation with the whole community).12:17
lcafieroCommunication is a strong point of FAmSCo, as far as I can tell. I also think that mentoriing should be a high priority. FAmSCo top function should be facilitating the work ambassadors do in all areas.12:17
spevackWe've had more events this year than past years, though I don't know whether or not FAMSCo deserves credit for that directly.  Maybe it's just a coincidence.12:17
ke4qqqenough questions at once there....:) I think FAmSCo is one of the better places that Fedora shows it's global leadership diversity. I think that as the push towards regional leadership has occurred that it's caused some loss of part of the purpose that FAmSCo originally existed for.12:17
lcafieroI would like to work on the mentoring aspect going forward, whether I'm elected or not.12:17
spevackherlo: there are a few areas for improvement.12:17
kitalregional leadership = they can react faster and more region specific12:17
red_alertfor me, budget is one of the most important points for the next year. like for the FAD EMEA 2008, I'd want to get more potential sponsors to help us with some sort of donations all over the world12:18
susmitFAmSCo, is good for monitoring human as well as other resources. What can be made better is the routing and tracking of human resources. Budget if fine for me.12:18
spevackI think the key for famsco to continue to improve12:18
spevackis going to be more automation.12:18
spevackwe've got some automation of the membership process now, thanks in large part to kital.12:18
lcafieroThere also need to be more cultural sensitivity -- more attention to the different needs and requirements in different cultures12:18
spevacki think we need a better way to track the locations of ambassadors (and fedora contributors overall) than the CountryList page, which is manual.12:18
susmitAlso I would like to see some improvement in mentoring. As far as APAC is concerned, we need better mentoring for newbies.12:19
lcafieroThis came up in the town hall for the board -- East Asia, according to one person, tends to need more attention.12:19
ke4qqqI think the regional leadership is a great thing. WRT communication - I think that FAmSCo does a good job now of communicating meetings - though I think there is a significant backchannel on the list12:19
jds2001which leads us in to our next question, if we're ready.12:19
fugolini+1 too12:19
spevackI think we may need a better way of tracking event reports, i'm not sure whether i'm too harsh or too easy on that particular topic.12:20
spevacksure, +112:20
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lcafiero+1 to spevack12:20
fugolinispevack: +10012:20
jds2001warren (who couldn't be here, so inode0 asked for him) asks: What can be done by FAmSCo to help increase the spread of Fedora to Asia? The language barrier and translation of the  Fedora message to Asian countries might be less natural and take more effort, can you help with this?12:20
spevacklet me start...12:20
* lcafiero yields to spevack 12:20
spevackas warren says, the biggest problem with Asia is the language diversity.12:20
spevackHarish Pillay is a red hat employee who has the ability to spend some of his time as a regional red hat contact for the APAC community.12:21
spevackI know he's helped me to transfer budget to asia contributors for some events.12:21
spevackI think that India is a separate region, at least the way i think about it, and Ambasssadors and community in India seems very strong.12:22
spevacktruthfully, i haven't attended the APAC ambassadors meetings, and I really should.  I need to see first hand what thesituation is like.12:22
spevackthat' sall for me12:22
kitalI can add, that we point new asia Ambassadors to Regional Mentors after approval12:22
susmitAs far as India is concerned, it is not. Given resources and if we can mentor properly, this can be very easily done. We desperately need some framework to follow up events and provide something in form of "project work".12:23
lcafieroHaving lived in Japan for four years (and having a Japanese wife and daughter), I'd like to help in this effort, and I was unaware there was a problem in Japan until the last town hall. I am impressed with the activity in both India and now Nepal, which is great.12:23
spevacksusmit: what do you mean, "it is not"?12:24
susmit"it is not" a problem :)12:24
spevacklcafiero: we'd be glad for the help, i think apac needs to be one of our areas of focus next year.  of the main regions of the world where we try to build community, i think we're lagging there.12:24
fugoliniI think APAC community is spreading is wings, thank to local contacts leadership. BTW, I think we could improve the mentoring process monitoring and helping12:25
ke4qqqso APAC is really a huge and diverse area - I don't know there is a single solution - there's been some recent list traffic about china. the problem is getting back to jumpstarting community. I think some serious mentoring could be of help even though it's likely going to be done via the net.12:25
jds2001can we move on?12:25
fugoliniI think one of the key role for FAmSCo is to help the local groups to improve their community experience and I'm sure in APAC too12:25
ke4qqqand getting copious resources to jumpstart something - so we do more than pay for swag - we pay expenses for someone to visit various LUGs and colleges and etc.12:25
lcafiero+1 to ke4qqq and fugolini12:26
ke4qqquntil regional leadership can do the same thing12:26
spevackyes, i agree also.12:26
spevackjds2001: i think we can move on12:26
jds2001mdomsch asks on behalf of glezos, do we need more non-profits like Fedora e.V. in EMEA for the Ambassadors to be successful in other regions?12:26
spevackI'll tell you what I like about the FEdora EMEA e.V non-profit.12:27
lcafieroFor just EMEA?12:27
spevackIt makes my specific job (taking care of the budget) so much easier.12:27
spevacklcafiero: i think glezos means expanding that model elsewher ein the world12:27
jds2001no, for anywhere in the world.12:27
ke4qqqI would say yes - BUT - there are a lot of hurdles in regions that aren't EMEA - in LATAM it'd likely require scores of non-profits - same in APAC. EMEA is a really unique situation12:27
spevackke4qqq: because of the currency pretty much all being euros, you mean?12:28
lcafieroTo expand this in other regions = +112:28
ke4qqqspevack: no12:28
ke4qqqbecause the non-profit can operate across EMEA12:29
ke4qqqso even in the US12:29
ke4qqqif I start a non-profit12:29
spevackspeaking from the point of view of moving budget around, NA and EMEA are the easiest parts of the world to service.  The non-profit helps with this quite a bit in EMEA.12:29
ke4qqqI may have to register in every state we do business in12:29
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fugolinike4qqq: ?12:29
spevackit's not a coincidence, then, that NA and EMEA get more resources spent on them than other regions.  I hope that gap starts to close next year.12:29
spevackke4qqq: thanks for explaining12:30
ke4qqqwhile I think the np in EMEA is a fabulous vehicle - and would love to have sometihng similar - there are problems with it.12:30
lcafieroke4qqq is right -- there can be a lot of hurdles in the U.S. because all states have different nonprofit requirements12:30
spevackfrom my perspective, the US doesn't need it.12:30
* lcafiero says it's a huge pain12:30
ke4qqqAnd while I am not a international business lawyer.....I'd imagine that transferring money from one corp in latam, to another country would be problematic.12:30
ke4qqqeven more so than in the states12:31
spevackke4qqq: the LATAM money transfers are very painful.  Sometimes RH refuses to reimburse me and it just ends up being a personal donation to the fedora project12:31
spevackbut i'm working on fixing that directly with Red Hat's LATAM operations for next year.12:31
spevackthat is a HUGE priority for me12:31
ke4qqqI think that's a great example of regional leadership that's worked REALLY well - but it's regional I don't think it will work, at least at our current scale, in many other places.12:31
susmitke4qqq, +1 for APAC too, though India is fine. Thanks to max and Sankarshan no problem with it..12:32
kitalemea e.V. is the natural consequence of a strong regional community - there is also a french community with it´s own NPO and they do also a great job - another main point besides moneytransfer . you can get a booth for free on exhibitions12:32
fugoliniNPO are a powerfull tool, but that tool has to be used and it's necessary a lot of work. I think FAmSCo could help figuring out how to implement this one, but at the end it would be necessary a local groups effort to mantain the machine running. This not means FAmSCo shouldn't take care of it, but it would help focusing resources in a more efficient way.12:32
spevacksusmit: we need the same setup we have in India in LATAM.  Sankarshan reimburses ambassadors in India directly, and the expenses get charged back to the Fedora budget through Red Hat's internals.  We don't have a system like that in LATAM... yet ;)12:33
spevackonce we do, that problem will basically be solved.12:33
susmitLATAM does not have a RH office?12:33
fugoliniPersonally I think Fedora EMEA is a great idea, and I'm sure during this year and in the next year too we will see the benefit. But thank to EMEA members that helped making it a reality.12:33
jds2001are we ready to move on?12:34
jds2001herlo asks:  specific to spevack's point about having a better tool to manage ambassadors, what tools would be helpful to manage more of what FAmSCo does  regularly?  In other words, what do you see are the points lacking automation currently in Fedora and ambassdors?12:35
spevackmaybe we need a trac instance for tickets regarding event budgets, reimbursements, etc.  I always fear making the burden on the local ambassadors too high, but maybe we just need to try it.12:36
spevackwhen someone has to ping me 3 times before i remember to paypal them, that's a burden too :)12:36
* jds2001 can set that up for you :)12:36
lcafiero+1 (not that I've ever pinged spevack for money . . . )12:36
susmitaha, in my opinion, this, https://fedorahosted.org/shomyu/ and this https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/India/WhatDoYouNeed12:37
ke4qqqAt times I wish for something along the lines of a CRM package - so that not only can I track opportunities and people that we are talking to and manage upcoming conferences, but after the fact Max can show our RH benefactors in a consolidated place the effects we have.12:37
lcafieroTracking schedules of events tends to be a black magic that could be tweaked, but other than that . . . .12:38
fugoliniWe discussed about that idea during this year. At the end I agreed with spevack when he says the tools that actually are set up (email/m-l/wiki ...) are just enough12:38
fugoliniThe only lack I noticed is that those datas aren't so easy to use to perfom ratios etc12:39
* fugolini know he goes a little bit offtopic12:39
spevackthe simple truth is that i personally don't have time (right now) to implement a better system, but if someone else on famsco could help me, and make it a team effort, i think we could make some good progress in the next few months.12:39
spevacki think we've scaled about as far as we can with just the FedoraEvents wiki page.12:39
ke4qqqI don't know that this is a tool - but perhaps even have specific famsco members assigned to regional leadership - so if I am having problems getting something I talk to $famscomembera rahter than waiting for spevack to stop traveling.12:39
* ke4qqq doesn't mean to pick on spevack12:40
jds2001we ready to move on?12:41
spevackke4qqq: your point is fair.  we can definitely be more efficient.12:41
jds2001inode0 asks I'd like to ask the candidates to speak a bit about the importance of supporting FADs worldwid12:41
fugoliniYou know I love FAD, just because those are the right place to discuss about long/short term goals12:41
* kital think FAD is important = teambuilding + getting things done!12:42
lcafieroThere's discussion about FADs being held separate of existing events or in conjunction with them12:42
fugolinithat each region has to accomplish, and that's the right place to meet all together. and +1 with kital12:42
lcafieroI think they can stand on their own, but I think it helps show the general Linux community the benefits of Fedora's community by holding them with existing events.12:42
lcafieroAnd we should hold several of them.12:42
* lcafiero is a big fan of FAD -- can you tell?12:42
spevackthey are very important.  I'm working on budget proposals for the Community Architecture team for next year right now w/ Red Hat, and I'm hopeful that we'll have money to support Fedora Ambassador Day events in all regions, but to rebrand them slightly so that they are not just covering event planning for the next year, but also bringing together all contributors in a region.  Sort of like a mini-FUDCon.12:43
ke4qqqSo I think that FADs are important for a few reasons - 1. They foster team/relationship building. 2. They allow for brainstorming/developing of strategy. 3. They are great for getting people excited again.12:43
* susmit thinks once in a while, separate FAD is nice.12:43
lcafiero+10 to ke4qqq12:43
lcafieroForgive me, all, but my daughter is in a parade in Santa Cruz this morning and they're about to get started and I have to leave to be part of the schools support group.12:44
spevacklcafiero: wear your fedora ambassador shirt :)12:44
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lcafieroI will be wearing my red Red Hat hat (baseball cap)12:44
susmitlcafiero, have a nice time. :)12:45
lcafieroBut I will check the log and address any issues on the mailing list if that's okay.12:45
fugolinilcafiero: enjoy yourself :)12:45
ke4qqqthanks lcafiero12:45
lcafieroThanks again for the opportunity at this town hall meeting.12:45
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spevackHere is my vision for reach region of the world:12:45
spevackNA, LATAM, EMEA, India/APAC:12:45
spevack1 FUDCon per year, per region.12:45
spevack1 "FAD"-like event per year, per region12:46
spevacksplit about 6 months from each other.12:46
spevackthe budget planning process that I'm going through for CommArch for next year hopes to implement that vision, or at least get is closer to it.12:46
kitalspevack: +112:46
fugoliniI completely agree.12:47
ke4qqqI know the reasons for not doing this, but given some of the schedules, I almost think that FAD should be tied on to another event in the region (but not FUDcon)12:47
jds2001--- db1.fedora.phx.redhat.com ping statistics ---12:47
jds20012 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 999ms12:47
spevackke4qqq: yeah, maybe.  i think it's best not to mandate how people schedule their FAD.  For you guys in NA, it worked well alongside Ohio Linux Fest, for example.12:48
spevackhere in EMEA, it was a standalone event.12:48
spevackI don't necessarily care either way, as long as its mission is accomplished.12:48
jds2001err, apologies for the errant paste12:48
ke4qqqthats a good point - it shouldn't be famsco's to tell when/how to run it.12:48
spevackand the cost of each (FAD EMEA and Ohio Linux Fest + FAD NA) was about the same, so it's ok from a budget POV too12:48
kitalFAD is very productive if you make it standalone12:48
susmitkital, because it is focused?12:49
kitalbecause Events are excausting12:49
susmitor something else?12:49
kitaland you need the power on the event12:49
kitalwe have tried twice a FAD on Linuxtag12:50
kitalit was not very productive12:50
spevackkital: the guys who did FAD at Ohio Linux Fest did a better job of separating FAD from the event than we did separating FAD from LinuxTag.  You are right, it didn't work at all at LinuxTag (though LinuxTag itself was great).12:51
fugoliniFAD is an event itself, with sessions, activites, social activities. I think FAmSCo will need it too :P12:51
jds2001we did the FAD the day after, at a separate location.12:51
spevackat LinuxTag, the "FAD" time just ended up being a briefing for what to do at LT.  Which was ok. All's well that ends well.12:51
spevackjds2001: that's the way to do it.12:51
kitaland Linuxtag is a 5 Day event - you will go nowhere after it ;)12:52
spevackafter linuxtag, all you want to do is sleep12:53
spevackjds2001: what's next?12:53
jds2001i'm seeing nothing else in the queue, someone volunteer something :12:53
fugolinicandidates commitments?12:54
spevackI think it's important to recognize12:54
spevackthat FAMSCo, regardless of who is elected, *must* continue to advocate and support the regional leadership model that we have been building.12:54
spevackIt's also important to realize that Ambassadors is greater than just "event organization", which many of the people who speak about mentoring already understand.12:55
spevackthat's all for me.12:55
jds2001we do have one more question from inode012:55
jds2001 What do candidates like/dislike about the current Fedora election process?12:55
spevacknot enough attack ads :)12:55
spevacki think it's fine, to be honest.12:55
kitali like it12:55
* susmit have nothing against it :)12:56
spevacki've never looked at the result of an election and thought "wow, that's just crazy".  I hope we have a high turnout this time, higher than ever before.  I'm guessing these townhalls will help with that.12:56
* ke4qqq has nothing against it. 12:56
fugoliniLike: the town hall and the way those are carries - Dislike: maybe there is the necessity to spread the election12:56
jds2001which brings us to inode0's next point, that attendance at these has been quite low.12:57
jds2001what can FAmSCo (or anyone else) do to help improve that?12:57
fugoliniI can tell you about my experience this year.12:57
ke4qqqmake radical decisions that make people want to change leadership? :)12:58
fugoliniI've tried to cover (when I had time) the election process, or better the nomination period, and I notices the number of people was not12:58
spevackke4qqq: "If I am elected to FAMSCo, I will vote to spend the entire budget on cookies!  Come to the town hall meeting to hear more!" :)12:59
fugoliniso bad, People replied to the call for candidates. BTW, I think FAmSCo should try to focus on the communication side12:59
jds2001spevack: so long as I get some! :)12:59
susmitfugolini, an asterix setup?12:59
ke4qqqso I think some of it is also getting people to take ownership - then they will care more13:00
kitali think it is normal for FOSS communities, to not care too much in bureaucracy and commitees and such stuff13:00
fugolinisusmit:  maybe :)13:00
fugoliniBut in a general perspective, the big tournout came when something is not going well13:02
ke4qqqfugolini: +1 - thats why spevacks cookie idea might work :)13:02
susmitor many people are working on something and want to discuss.13:02
fugoliniI absolutely agree with that idea :D13:02
jds2001well, we're right at an hour, and I think that this has been a very productive townhall (all of them).13:03
jds2001Anything the canddidates would like to say in closing?13:04
jds2001oh, I'm sorry, we did have one more from fugolini13:04
fugoliniit's the same thing I think13:04
spevackthanks to you jds2001 for moderating.  Vote for ZOD!13:04
fugolinijds2001: don't worry I think everyone has just well express his position13:05
fugoliniI didn't notice the clock13:05
spevacki'd like to thank fugolini for his leadership as famsco chair this past year, as well.13:05
jds2001oh, OK13:05
ke4qqqIn general I don't think you can go wrong voting for any of the candidates - but I'll be happy to take all your votes :) Thanks jds2001 for moderating and others for attending.13:05
* spevack has nothing else to add13:05
fugolinispevack: I want to thank you for your support and the continue work. Like I want to thank kital for keep AMA  (membership) up and running.13:06
fugoliniand all the other candidates from susmit to ke4qqq, red_alert for their big help in the community13:06
* susmit thanks for all the support he or his region from previous FAmSCo. 13:07
* susmit thanks for all the support to him or his region from previous FAmSCo. 13:07
susmitfugolini, thanks13:07
fugoliniThank jds2001 to have spent your time moderating the meeting, too :)13:07
jds2001np, happy to do it!13:08

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